Zero Clearance Woodburner construction experience
I’ve gone the route of trying to put in a center of the cabin Rumford. While I understand it in theoretical depth, I can’t abide the expense. 37 K here in Wisconsin. And that was from a good friend. The 16 12 pitch I made is part of the culprit for the expense. That is 35 foot of chimney from the main floor.
So I’ve read the sheets from the manufacturers to get the gist of their needs. I will exceed whatever that is. There way too much woodwork in my place to give short shrift to security. It just gives me the willies to concieve of a 35 foot tall column of plywood over a woodburner running at 451 degrees plus. The venturi effect would be a great bonfire…
So. I’m asking for your insight. here is a picture of the place, advised and built with the brilliance of most of your insight. We starrted in 2000. and the Journey has been fun. If nothing else thanks for everyone’s help.
Replies
37k, it that in $$ or something else?
Why a PLYWOOD column?
WI is near zero sesmic zone, all you need to do is stack rocks.
Say a 2 ft by 4 foot stone column with 3ea 9" by 8" fireclay flues. 8" by 12 ft by 35 ft = 10 yards. Out here in the mountains, 1 man stone is only $20-30 yard or so, say 50 where you are.
$500 worth of stone, say another $500 for firebrick and the flues, $100 for mortar, and $100 for misc steel and such. Say 1.5k.
It would take this 70 yo old fart (and grandkids to haul the stone up) about 3weeks or 480 hours including grandkid labor.
Stonemason costs in WI are apparently pretty high ($72 including helper?) You are jack of all trades, why not DIY?
Or, like already posted, have nice bare shiny SS DI pipe?
edit: to break up single paragraph BT default post, forgot to double enter return key.
Dollars and Plywood
Junkhound,
Thanks for the reply, in the kindest sense, it cuts to the quick. There is no doubt that I want to do it myself, and it hurts my ego not to.
I still have to 'shovel coal' 40 hours a week so my clock is not entirely my own. Both my wife & I are still living & working a good distance from our weekend shack. I hoped that a bit of money would shuck off the heavy lifting and get right to the enjoyment. An indoor firecircle would make winter more tolerable.
Possibly the biggest price point in this quotation is the collection of premade components that make up the Rumford design. Back 10 years ago when I put the plan to paper the Throat, smoke chamber, damper and flues (13"x13" x 35 foot) ran 4000$ w/o delivery from superior clay. Given 10 years I'm sure the price of ceramic pieces has gone up significantly. The material cost w those materials, cement blocks, and face rock runs 12 to 19 k per my friends estimates. Labor is the balance on his quotation. Well labor includes rental of a man lift reaching device that can go out 30 feet & up 35 in order to create the chimney, roof flashing & pour a cap on the exterior.
Of course the interior location of the fireplace (not on an inside wall) ads to the labor. Stepping away from Rumford to a standard fireplace isn't an option. My available pad indoors is 42 by 82. The std fireplace would be really tiny by comparison to the Rumford plan. Plus the price would just drop by a small amount.
In my justification of his estimate, my initial figures computed 5300 face brick were required if I covered the structure with the common brick material. So I feel he is in the neighborhood price wise. If you price a brick in today's market to get a feel for the expense. Sand, Rock & gypsum run into money.
The insert is his recomendation to reduce the cost. It is basically a redesigned Ben Franklin fireplace with a steel air jacket fitted to a triple wall SS stove pipe. Let's not put lipstick on this pig. It is a copout to finances.
To PUT lipstick on this pig, the standard insert designs allow you to build a box around the fireplace out of 2x4's and OSB or drywall. Distances need be maintained and ventilation provided to keep the temperature down in the enclosure. Some people put drywall up to enclose the stovepipe chase. Another option is to put up OSB with a facade of thin cut or some masonary material to give the illusion of substance. Thus the 35 foot venturi of Plywood.
All inserts in my mind have the lifetime question. How long before the triple wall stovepipe falls apart.
Makes me appreciate central heat a lot more.
Dollars and Plywood
Junkhound,
Thanks for the reply, in the kindest sense, it cuts to the quick. There is no doubt that I want to do it myself, and it hurts my ego not to.
I still have to 'shovel coal' 40 hours a week so my clock is not entirely my own. Both my wife & I are still living & working a good distance from our weekend shack. I hoped that a bit of money would shuck off the heavy lifting and get right to the enjoyment. An indoor firecircle would make winter more tolerable.
Possibly the biggest price point in this quotation is the collection of premade components that make up the Rumford design. Back 10 years ago when I put the plan to paper the Throat, smoke chamber, damper and flues (13"x13" x 35 foot) ran 4000$ w/o delivery from superior clay. Given 10 years I'm sure the price of ceramic pieces has gone up significantly. The material cost w those materials, cement blocks, and face rock runs 12 to 19 k per my friends estimates. Labor is the balance on his quotation. Well labor includes rental of a man lift reaching device that can go out 30 feet & up 35 in order to create the chimney, roof flashing & pour a cap on the exterior.
Of course the interior location of the fireplace (not on an inside wall) ads to the labor. Stepping away from Rumford to a standard fireplace isn't an option. My available pad indoors is 42 by 82. The std fireplace would be really tiny by comparison to the Rumford plan. Plus the price would just drop by a small amount.
In my justification of his estimate, my initial figures computed 5300 face brick were required if I covered the structure with the common brick material. So I feel he is in the neighborhood price wise. If you price a brick in today's market to get a feel for the expense. Sand, Rock & gypsum run into money.
The insert is his recomendation to reduce the cost. It is basically a redesigned Ben Franklin fireplace with a steel air jacket fitted to a triple wall SS stove pipe. Let's not put lipstick on this pig. It is a copout to finances.
To PUT lipstick on this pig, the standard insert designs allow you to build a box around the fireplace out of 2x4's and OSB or drywall. Distances need be maintained and ventilation provided to keep the temperature down in the enclosure. Some people put drywall up to enclose the stovepipe chase. Another option is to put up OSB with a facade of thin cut or some masonary material to give the illusion of substance. Thus the 35 foot venturi of Plywood.
All inserts in my mind have the lifetime question. How long before the triple wall stovepipe falls apart.
Makes me appreciate central heat a lot more.
Hey you!
long time no see.
How bout I throw this into the equation. Lookup Masonry Heater Association and consider that angle.
way more efficient, can be a beautiful thing and uses a lot less wood. Probably a lot more money, but we opted for a Tulikivi back in '89 and I'm glad we did.
no need for a chimney cleaning in all that time. Why, all the bad stuff gets burned up along with the wood, so no creosote to build up.
ipad can be used to post here. But when you reply, click once and waaaaaait, otherwise an impatient additional click means your post comes up again and again.
Nice to see you back!
Calvin and the magic fan
The title is a throwback to the Thermador 36 inch fan you hooked me up with. Thanks for that. I finally go the new stove worthy of that smoke eater. I picked up a Viking 36 inch dual fuel. Pretty sweet looking setup now.
Back to your Tvukli (They need a little marketing help with that name). I am still carrying around the flyer I got back in 2004 for that brand. It is compelling. It appears efficient, clean looking and supposedly your happy place in the winter?
One question. How do you get it from 8 foot off the floor vented (in my case) 35 foot off the floor? Open air in my case. I'm thinking i transition to a big stainless triple wall pipe?
Good to hear from you.
Mike
Mike
the wife and I took to the UP to get to northern Mn. and then on to the Pacific late last September. I should have emailed you and stopped on tHe way. Not sure how far north you are in Wi.
at any rate, a beautiful colorful state you have there.
I have a block and brick veneer chimney up through the second floor. Transitions to a parged surface up above the roof.
Have worked on a couple places that had the soapstone sleeve Tulikivi makes to surround the SS chimney.
If you look to the MHA.org site you'll see several variations on the theme in more natural finishes. Some have tiles all the way to the castles of old Europe. Finlanders some known as quite frugal might have stucco all the way.
at MHA.org find some work by Tom Trout, a good friend from N.C. He's both studied and taught in all of Europe and the Far East . No sht, there's science as well as comfort and beauty behind it.
this site isn't what it was when you were here, but the beauty of it all is that it's still around and just might be of some help. If nothing else, a good place to rekindle old friendships.
so, where were you in Wisconsin, maybe we passed by and should have waved.
Cheap seats
We built this in the cheap seats on Lake Michigan. Hopefully your trip let you look over Superior or Lake Michigan. Both have ever changing personalities. Fun drive either way.
Kewaunee is on Lake Michigan where Hwy 29 tries to leap across to Michigan. It was that was of course before Mrs. O'leary made those non compliant roofing material. Then in later years it was a former Ferry crossing point for train cars and vehicles to Michigan. Thankfully that ferry service passed south to Manitowoc before we bought. The romance of the town is better without a piercing 3am ships horn announcing arrival. It is a cute little town that hasn't quite figured how to move factories from the waterfront. It is evolving at a pleasant pace with friendly folks all over. Big tourist activity is fishing for Salmon and trout in the summer.
Then of course you have the cultural impact of Lambeau around the corner. Definitely worth the walk thru. A game is a spectacle that should be on everyone's bucket list. Relatively inexpensive and the social aspects are off the rails interesting. You forget yourself easily.
Loop by again and give a call. Sailing is the new summer sport.
Oh boy
rock collecting or ballast for the paddle home?
that northern start we took did sneak a peak at Superior. We enjoyed a couple of your states camping parks! Who'd have thought we'd have some delicious fresh pears off the tree at one nights rest.
I'll try to make contact if I head that way again. I've got a long time customer turned friend that has a place by oosburg on the shore we may some day take up on their offer of a beach fire. That must be on the way to/from your place.
congrats and hang onto that girl, she's pretty.
An epiphany fell out of this alcohol induced stuper...
there might be some simple masonry lt wt. round sleeves available if you don't want that shiny pole.